Oh my god 1000% this. I could not agree more. For me it's a matter of motivations and incentives; brands don't want to foster community for community's sake, they just want to sell more widgets. It's rotten top to bottom.
Something that's stuck in my mind came from a member of our local mountaineering club, which Hannah and I joined recently. One of the older members said to me, 'What people want from communities is different these days. Decades ago they asked themselves what they could contribute. Now it's all about what they can get out of it.'
As you say, capitalism-mediated community is transactional and that fundamentally poisons the well.
Ah! YES! This is the bit I was missing! The perception of what it means to be an active part of a community, and actually wanting to contribute. That’s it, you’ve voiced it perfectly. Someone said a while back that ‘you don’t need self care, you need to contribute to a community’ and that felt like a big wake up call!
This is why I'm a big believer in non-commercial clubs. It's such a shame that club membership tends to be a preserve of older generations. Younger people could get so much out of them if they tried!
Excellent Immy - Fundamentally we’re all both products and to whom products are sold. Any company talking about building communities (whilst some may be laudable) are only really looking at their profits. Any contact from anyone marketing their product has to be considered in this light.
Totally agree. I think it’s often difficult for people to disentangle those things when they first come across them- especially when these communities are often faced by social media!
I love this! I was really looking forward to reading but I've had a cold this week that's seen me take a couple of days off work, and even into the Easter weekend I've spent most of my time on the sofa unable to focus on anything. I really appreciate that you read it as well, because I was able to read along while listening and that really helped my poor brain.
I was a member of a trail running community for a few years that was delivered by a brand. Once a month they would provide a coach to take us out to the trails. Living in London and with many of us not owning cars, this made the trails a lot more accessible - as well as having leaders who knew great routes. It was really my gateway into trail running and I'm very grateful. But none of us really even wore the brand's kit as there were better brands out there (I did buy one pair of shoes but they didn't really work out for me). The coaches stopped and we started going to places we could reach on public transport, making our own way there. And it was no surprise then the brand changed tack and dropped support entirely. I met some great friends on those runs and have many good memories. Fortunately two of the guys who were involved decided to keep it going and set up their own community, with weekly training runs and monthly out of town longer trail runs. We honestly need more people like that in the world.
This is a great read Immy, and so spot on, I completely agree. It reminded me of a piece I read a while back about how "the climbing community" isn't real- about how we're now so atomised and individualistic as a society, that we are so desperate to *feel* as though we're part of a community without being willing to go out and do the hard work of actually being part of a real, local, tangible community that we will easily buy into false ideas of community pushed by media or brands who's real aim is to make us buy shit. (I've not explained that super well, but if you're interested I'll dig out the article).
I've been a member of a climbing club for four years now, a real, amazing community. And though sometimes it's a lot of work (am currently on the committee and the hut booking secretary), the joy it brings me, being part of something with such a rich history, and hanging out with just a wide variety of incredible women, is immeasurable, as I the joy I facilitate in others by organising meets and hut access. That's what I "get out of it", and really shouldn't that be enough?
A really interesting read and one which got me thinking well beyond the community model of sports. The concept of transactional expectation seems to be a hugely cynical undercurrent prevalent in almost all walks of life. Consumerism has made many of us expect to get something out of every action we make, which leaves us all poorer.
I totally agree Immy that you can’t buy a community - surely it has to come together with a common purpose or interest and reap the social and other benefits from this. I started organising before things got so commercial and was able to engage a community that loved being a part and came back year after year. I doubt it would be so easy now. (https://open.substack.com/pub/runningbehindthescenes/p/the-clandon-park-run-is-born?r=3we0zu&utm_medium=ios I wrote about it here) I plan a 3rd instalment to talk about the unintended consequences of this event - and one of them was forging better relationships between a large school and the local community.
Thank you for that comment An. After several years of organising the event, I recognised that if I’d known at the start what I knew at the end, I would NEVER ever have been brave enough to organise that first event. But I’m very glad I did! Linda
A brilliant piece Immy! I’ve been mulling this over since you posted something about brands and community building after the marathon, but you’ve written it far more coherently than any of the rambling trains of thought I’ve had!
I’d love to know what more you think can be done to encourage grassroots communities/what state the country is going to get to before we realise the importance of true community?
For me, true community can only really be location-specific. You need the same people turning up and giving their time, and in order to lean on community we most of the time need to be geographically close. The only time I’ve really experienced true community is being part of an EA-affiliated running club (and whatever the New Zealand equivalent is!). People of all ages, from all walks of life, turning up not because they get free stuff or because an event is “cool”, but because they genuinely enjoy the activity and being able to do it with likeminded people, and getting involved with something that quite literally wouldn’t exist without the people who make it happen. The more you meet the same people the more you care about them, and the more willing you are to go out of your way to help them - lifts to races and lending spare kit turn into babysitting, lending household appliances, and job networking.
I’ve noticed that brand “community” events are really just places for friends to socialise at. Instead of going to the pub they go for a run/ride and because it’s an event it’s a lot more interesting to post about on socials. Which isn’t necessarily bad, it’s just…not building a community.
Really great piece! It's so dystopian that community is now being commodified by brands and used as a just another metric when real, true community is what we need to be working on rebuilding.
Brilliant! I guess (seeing as we do need a small amount of cycling gear) we need more cooperative businesses that embody real community not just branding.
Yet another brilliant, thought provoking and interesting article. I've been thinking a lot recently about how many brands push this idea of community and then seem to quickly grow into yet another bland, white, wealthy male group. I'm really reluctant these days spending my money with any brand that doesn't reflect me and my friends but it's not easy.
I previously worked at the bikepacking brand, Apidura, and believe strongly that all their efforts to be involved with the community were incredibly well intentioned. Long-lasting, meaningful connections, either supporting individuals or events. This makes me optimistic that there are companies looking beyond simply selling more products!
That’s good to hear. I do absolutely believe there are well intentioned communities and people doing good things - I’ve got friends who have set them up, and I genuinely believe they’re making a difference! My big concern is that grassroots communities are less common and have less engagement and so brands are becoming more the arbiter of these communities. Brands shouldn’t disappear, they just need to be part of the fabric of community groups.
Absolutely. And to take the argument further (or perhaps it’s slightly adjacent), it’s even worse when grassroots organisations are swallowed by bigger brands or entities. I’m thinking UTMB and the Whistler event.
This all hits home with what I've been thinking for a while. The paradox of needing the brands funding and keeping genuine, purposeful output, whether it be visual or written, is a challenge. But one worth challenging. Great read, thank you!
You put words to something that has been nagging me for a long time now, but that I struggled to point out! It's exactly as you say: in this day and age it's hard for community to get around without brands (the funding and reach that brands bring are hard to match), but basing all community on it is like trying to build a skyscraper with a small collection of marbles for a foundation. It's the reason I try to rally all of my running friends to join an athletics club alongside or instead of brand-powered running clubs. I've found athletics clubs a brave antidote against the mentality of 'what can I get out of this' and the hollow, profit motivation that underpins brands (even well-meaning brands that try to do good - as you say, ultimately, in a capitalist system, businesses exist solely to extract and aggregate wealth).
This was so interesting to read because it’s so harrowingly true. I also think that many of the bigger brands with dominating budgets look to a grassroots community to build brand authenticity on their behalf, which is needed because most of their team don’t even engage in the sport or activity they’re trying to resonate with.
Great article Immy and excellently written. I’ve noticed that when brands mention ‘community’ what they often mean is ‘our network of influencers who help sell our product’, influencers who they pay very little or nothing for and will drop next season when they want some fresh faces and feel they’ve exhausted the buying power of said influencers audience. Moreover, in a lot of cases ‘community’ is simply a euphemism for ‘our customers’.
I’m in two minds about the value of brand events, as a lot of people working for these brands are actively involved in [insert hobby/sport here] themselves. So I can see why they do it. If I worked for a cycling brand I’d also want to organise an event where I could get paid to go ride my bike with like minded folks. Some of the events are really well put together too, and certain brands have a vibe that seems to attract the kind of folks I want to hang out with. That said, the community aspect of these events I find to be superficial at best. The brands do the organising, we turn up, hopefully have a good time and then we all go our separate ways again. I’m not saying relationships aren’t forged at events like that, but they’re few and far between. In my experience the attendees seem to be established friend groups who tend to stay siloed for the whole event and don’t mix with others aside from exchanging pleasantries. I also wonder what’s really in it for the brands at those kind of events - they seem to be preaching to the converted for the most part, so is it just a question of retaining brand loyalty? For the sake of example, I recently attended a group ride organised by Brooks saddles, billed as being a way for you to turn up and borrow a saddle for the day. Sounds like a great idea, but the reality was that 70-80% of the riders bikes were already fitted with Brooks saddles. We had a nice ride though and it brought together a bigger group of riders than would otherwise have got together that day.
I guess the fact that we’re even having this conversation shows how much brands have a hold of us in the techno-age, since all that should really matter about a brand from the customer perspective is whether their product is any good or not for the thing you need it for, and that it’s made and sold in a way that you feel comfortable with. We all want to feel part of the right tribe though and I suppose aligning ourselves with brands is part of that. That being said, I’m currently wearing socks with at least four holes in them. If any brands want to sponsor me, you know what my @ is.
“I’ve noticed that when brands mention ‘community’ what they often mean is ‘our network of influencers who help sell our product’[…] in a lot of cases ‘community’ is simply a euphemism for ‘our customers’“ - you really hit the nail on the head with this! I’ve been having the exact same thought recently but had struggled to put it into coherent words. Brands are changing our very understanding of the word “community” to be something that you don’t have to put anything into (except money for events/the merch to show you ‘belong’), rather than the idea that what you put it is often your own time and effort.
Oh my god 1000% this. I could not agree more. For me it's a matter of motivations and incentives; brands don't want to foster community for community's sake, they just want to sell more widgets. It's rotten top to bottom.
Something that's stuck in my mind came from a member of our local mountaineering club, which Hannah and I joined recently. One of the older members said to me, 'What people want from communities is different these days. Decades ago they asked themselves what they could contribute. Now it's all about what they can get out of it.'
As you say, capitalism-mediated community is transactional and that fundamentally poisons the well.
Ah! YES! This is the bit I was missing! The perception of what it means to be an active part of a community, and actually wanting to contribute. That’s it, you’ve voiced it perfectly. Someone said a while back that ‘you don’t need self care, you need to contribute to a community’ and that felt like a big wake up call!
This is why I'm a big believer in non-commercial clubs. It's such a shame that club membership tends to be a preserve of older generations. Younger people could get so much out of them if they tried!
Excellent Immy - Fundamentally we’re all both products and to whom products are sold. Any company talking about building communities (whilst some may be laudable) are only really looking at their profits. Any contact from anyone marketing their product has to be considered in this light.
Totally agree. I think it’s often difficult for people to disentangle those things when they first come across them- especially when these communities are often faced by social media!
I love this! I was really looking forward to reading but I've had a cold this week that's seen me take a couple of days off work, and even into the Easter weekend I've spent most of my time on the sofa unable to focus on anything. I really appreciate that you read it as well, because I was able to read along while listening and that really helped my poor brain.
I was a member of a trail running community for a few years that was delivered by a brand. Once a month they would provide a coach to take us out to the trails. Living in London and with many of us not owning cars, this made the trails a lot more accessible - as well as having leaders who knew great routes. It was really my gateway into trail running and I'm very grateful. But none of us really even wore the brand's kit as there were better brands out there (I did buy one pair of shoes but they didn't really work out for me). The coaches stopped and we started going to places we could reach on public transport, making our own way there. And it was no surprise then the brand changed tack and dropped support entirely. I met some great friends on those runs and have many good memories. Fortunately two of the guys who were involved decided to keep it going and set up their own community, with weekly training runs and monthly out of town longer trail runs. We honestly need more people like that in the world.
This is a great read Immy, and so spot on, I completely agree. It reminded me of a piece I read a while back about how "the climbing community" isn't real- about how we're now so atomised and individualistic as a society, that we are so desperate to *feel* as though we're part of a community without being willing to go out and do the hard work of actually being part of a real, local, tangible community that we will easily buy into false ideas of community pushed by media or brands who's real aim is to make us buy shit. (I've not explained that super well, but if you're interested I'll dig out the article).
I've been a member of a climbing club for four years now, a real, amazing community. And though sometimes it's a lot of work (am currently on the committee and the hut booking secretary), the joy it brings me, being part of something with such a rich history, and hanging out with just a wide variety of incredible women, is immeasurable, as I the joy I facilitate in others by organising meets and hut access. That's what I "get out of it", and really shouldn't that be enough?
A really interesting read and one which got me thinking well beyond the community model of sports. The concept of transactional expectation seems to be a hugely cynical undercurrent prevalent in almost all walks of life. Consumerism has made many of us expect to get something out of every action we make, which leaves us all poorer.
I totally agree Immy that you can’t buy a community - surely it has to come together with a common purpose or interest and reap the social and other benefits from this. I started organising before things got so commercial and was able to engage a community that loved being a part and came back year after year. I doubt it would be so easy now. (https://open.substack.com/pub/runningbehindthescenes/p/the-clandon-park-run-is-born?r=3we0zu&utm_medium=ios I wrote about it here) I plan a 3rd instalment to talk about the unintended consequences of this event - and one of them was forging better relationships between a large school and the local community.
Well done kinda, that was a brave thing that you did, look forward to reading the next installment.
Hello An, just letting you know I’ve finally managed to finish my Adventures and Lessons from organising my first running event - https://runningbehindthescenes.substack.com/p/what-i-learnt-organising-my-first
Thanks Linda and well done, I'll have a read this afternoon.
Thank you for that comment An. After several years of organising the event, I recognised that if I’d known at the start what I knew at the end, I would NEVER ever have been brave enough to organise that first event. But I’m very glad I did! Linda
A brilliant piece Immy! I’ve been mulling this over since you posted something about brands and community building after the marathon, but you’ve written it far more coherently than any of the rambling trains of thought I’ve had!
I’d love to know what more you think can be done to encourage grassroots communities/what state the country is going to get to before we realise the importance of true community?
For me, true community can only really be location-specific. You need the same people turning up and giving their time, and in order to lean on community we most of the time need to be geographically close. The only time I’ve really experienced true community is being part of an EA-affiliated running club (and whatever the New Zealand equivalent is!). People of all ages, from all walks of life, turning up not because they get free stuff or because an event is “cool”, but because they genuinely enjoy the activity and being able to do it with likeminded people, and getting involved with something that quite literally wouldn’t exist without the people who make it happen. The more you meet the same people the more you care about them, and the more willing you are to go out of your way to help them - lifts to races and lending spare kit turn into babysitting, lending household appliances, and job networking.
I’ve noticed that brand “community” events are really just places for friends to socialise at. Instead of going to the pub they go for a run/ride and because it’s an event it’s a lot more interesting to post about on socials. Which isn’t necessarily bad, it’s just…not building a community.
Really great piece! It's so dystopian that community is now being commodified by brands and used as a just another metric when real, true community is what we need to be working on rebuilding.
Brilliant! I guess (seeing as we do need a small amount of cycling gear) we need more cooperative businesses that embody real community not just branding.
Yet another brilliant, thought provoking and interesting article. I've been thinking a lot recently about how many brands push this idea of community and then seem to quickly grow into yet another bland, white, wealthy male group. I'm really reluctant these days spending my money with any brand that doesn't reflect me and my friends but it's not easy.
I previously worked at the bikepacking brand, Apidura, and believe strongly that all their efforts to be involved with the community were incredibly well intentioned. Long-lasting, meaningful connections, either supporting individuals or events. This makes me optimistic that there are companies looking beyond simply selling more products!
That’s good to hear. I do absolutely believe there are well intentioned communities and people doing good things - I’ve got friends who have set them up, and I genuinely believe they’re making a difference! My big concern is that grassroots communities are less common and have less engagement and so brands are becoming more the arbiter of these communities. Brands shouldn’t disappear, they just need to be part of the fabric of community groups.
Absolutely. And to take the argument further (or perhaps it’s slightly adjacent), it’s even worse when grassroots organisations are swallowed by bigger brands or entities. I’m thinking UTMB and the Whistler event.
Thoughtful discussion. Thanks for writing !
I'm just getting into substack and I'm happy I have - this piece is brilliant, well done.
This all hits home with what I've been thinking for a while. The paradox of needing the brands funding and keeping genuine, purposeful output, whether it be visual or written, is a challenge. But one worth challenging. Great read, thank you!
You put words to something that has been nagging me for a long time now, but that I struggled to point out! It's exactly as you say: in this day and age it's hard for community to get around without brands (the funding and reach that brands bring are hard to match), but basing all community on it is like trying to build a skyscraper with a small collection of marbles for a foundation. It's the reason I try to rally all of my running friends to join an athletics club alongside or instead of brand-powered running clubs. I've found athletics clubs a brave antidote against the mentality of 'what can I get out of this' and the hollow, profit motivation that underpins brands (even well-meaning brands that try to do good - as you say, ultimately, in a capitalist system, businesses exist solely to extract and aggregate wealth).
This was so interesting to read because it’s so harrowingly true. I also think that many of the bigger brands with dominating budgets look to a grassroots community to build brand authenticity on their behalf, which is needed because most of their team don’t even engage in the sport or activity they’re trying to resonate with.
Great article Immy and excellently written. I’ve noticed that when brands mention ‘community’ what they often mean is ‘our network of influencers who help sell our product’, influencers who they pay very little or nothing for and will drop next season when they want some fresh faces and feel they’ve exhausted the buying power of said influencers audience. Moreover, in a lot of cases ‘community’ is simply a euphemism for ‘our customers’.
I’m in two minds about the value of brand events, as a lot of people working for these brands are actively involved in [insert hobby/sport here] themselves. So I can see why they do it. If I worked for a cycling brand I’d also want to organise an event where I could get paid to go ride my bike with like minded folks. Some of the events are really well put together too, and certain brands have a vibe that seems to attract the kind of folks I want to hang out with. That said, the community aspect of these events I find to be superficial at best. The brands do the organising, we turn up, hopefully have a good time and then we all go our separate ways again. I’m not saying relationships aren’t forged at events like that, but they’re few and far between. In my experience the attendees seem to be established friend groups who tend to stay siloed for the whole event and don’t mix with others aside from exchanging pleasantries. I also wonder what’s really in it for the brands at those kind of events - they seem to be preaching to the converted for the most part, so is it just a question of retaining brand loyalty? For the sake of example, I recently attended a group ride organised by Brooks saddles, billed as being a way for you to turn up and borrow a saddle for the day. Sounds like a great idea, but the reality was that 70-80% of the riders bikes were already fitted with Brooks saddles. We had a nice ride though and it brought together a bigger group of riders than would otherwise have got together that day.
I guess the fact that we’re even having this conversation shows how much brands have a hold of us in the techno-age, since all that should really matter about a brand from the customer perspective is whether their product is any good or not for the thing you need it for, and that it’s made and sold in a way that you feel comfortable with. We all want to feel part of the right tribe though and I suppose aligning ourselves with brands is part of that. That being said, I’m currently wearing socks with at least four holes in them. If any brands want to sponsor me, you know what my @ is.
“I’ve noticed that when brands mention ‘community’ what they often mean is ‘our network of influencers who help sell our product’[…] in a lot of cases ‘community’ is simply a euphemism for ‘our customers’“ - you really hit the nail on the head with this! I’ve been having the exact same thought recently but had struggled to put it into coherent words. Brands are changing our very understanding of the word “community” to be something that you don’t have to put anything into (except money for events/the merch to show you ‘belong’), rather than the idea that what you put it is often your own time and effort.